Podcast episode
April 20, 2022
Episode 140: Gregory Shaw on the Phenomenology of Iamblichean Theurgy
In a very interesting and wide-ranging interview with Professor Gregory Shaw, we explore Iamblichean theurgy from a number of angles. What emerges is a programme for spiritual practice aimed at the salvation of the soul in the embodied life here on earth.
Topics discussed include:
- How Gregory Shaw got interested in Iamblichus and theurgy in the first place,
- The fundamental importance of a phenomenological reading of thinkers like Plotinus and Iamblichus,
- The status of the Eros and Anteros miracle produced by Iamblichus at the hot-springs at Gadara,
- Discussion of the question of dualism and monism in Plotinus and Iamblichus,
- The limits imposed by language when we attempt to talk about non-duality,
- The ways in which the impassible, changeless soul in Iamblichus in fact undergoes change, and we realise our immortality through our mortality,
- Iamblichus’ project as a synthesis of phenomenology, traditional religious/magical ritual practices, and Pythagoreanising Platonist theory,
- The similarities between Iamblichus’ approach in this regard and early Christian intellectual accounts of the eucharist, and
- Some final thoughts on what Iamblichus is doing, in theory and practice, with his theurgy.
Interview Bio:
Gregory Shaw is Professor of Religious Studies at Stonehill College, where he lectures on ancient religions, dreams, the phenomenology of transcendence, and other interesting subjects. He has published widely on Iamblichus, with special reference to theurgy.
Works Cited in this Episode:
- Polymnia Athanassiadi. Dreams, Theurgy, and Freelance Divination: The Testimony of Iamblichus. The Journal of Roman Studies, 83:155–30, 1993.
- E. R. Dodds. The Greeks and the Irrational. University of California Press, Berkeley, CA, 1968.
- Gregory Shaw 1995 (see below).
- Carlos Steel 1978 (see below).
Recommended Reading:
- G. Shaw. Theurgy: Rituals of Unification in the Neoplatonism of Iamblichus. Traditio, 41:1–28, 1985.
- Idem. Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplatonism of Iamblichus. Pennsylvania State University Press, University Park, PA, 1995.
- Idem. Eros and Arithmos: Pythagorean Theurgy in Iamblichus and Plotinus. Ancient Philosophy, 19:121–143, 1999a.
- Idem. Neoplatonic Theurgy and Dionysius the Areopagite. Journal of Early Christian Studies, 7:573–599, 1999b.
- Carlos G. Steel. The Changing Self. A Study of the Soul in Later Neoplatonism: Iamblichus, Damascius and Priscianus. Koninklijke Academie voor Wetenschappen, Letteren en Schone Kunsten van België, Brussel, 1978.
- J. Trouillard. La mediation du verbe selon Plotin. Revue Philosophique de la France et de l’Étranger, pages 65–73, 1956.
Themes
Addressative Ritual, Doctrine of Signatures, Dualism, Iamblichus, Interview, Marsilio Ficino, Monism, Nous, Occult Properties, Plotinus
Daniel Baumgarten
April 21, 2022
Thanks for this episode. It seems fairly bold to engage theurgy on an “experiential” level. But if I had interviewed Professor Shaw, I certainly would have asked why, having already gone so far off the beaten path, one would not just engage with it in terms properly theurgic, especially as it seems that one of his concerns was to avoid a reductionist interpretation of Iamblichus.
GREGORY SHAW
April 21, 2022
Intriguing comment…. One wonders what you might mean, Daniel, by “properly theurgic”? Probably not ideal to pursue this question in comment boxes but I admit to not knowing what you meant.
Daniel Baumgarten
April 22, 2022
Hello Professor, thanks for your reply. I will do what I can within the limitations of the medium. Very briefly then, I suppose a properly theurgic point of view would be like that assumed by Iamblichus himself. It seems you are already heading in this direction by drawing from personal experience with chant and meditation. But (and you might correct me) I think that as long as the emphasis is on the experience of the ritual, the point of view remains phenomenological; whereas for Iamblichus and other theurgists what appears to consciousness in the performance of a rite is rather ancillary to its proper efficacy. I would draw an analogy to the traditional Christian sacramental theology, which admits the possibility of visionary ecstasy as a consequence of liturgical prayer and even associates it with a pious disposition, but does not ever think of it as the proper effect of the sacrament, nor even the most interesting effect. I apologize if this rather obscures than clarifies what I mean.
Sam GIlroy
April 21, 2022
Could have listened to another 45 min of this discussion. Please say there’s a members only follow up!
Earl Fontainelle
April 26, 2022
Well, not really; there’s about ten minutes of extra material and then the internet sadly crashed for some reason. Just for you, though, I’ll put it out.
Jacob Eddinger-Smith
April 22, 2022
Hi,
What was the work of Ficino Professor Shaw mentioned? Not that I won’t be re-listening!
GREGORY SHAW
April 24, 2022
Ficino…”On Obtaining Life From the Heavens.” Book 3 of his Three Books of Life, translated by Kaske and Clark with the Latin text. Also see Thomas Moore, The Planets Within, a reflection on Ficino’s work in the context of Hermeticism and Jungian thought.
Fotis Panagoulias
April 26, 2022
Sincere thanks for this one, to both of you! Some remarks with tongue in cheek,if I may.
1. Need a Q&A from audience session and a consequent podcast afterwards.
2. Is prof Shaw maybe familiar with the work of Karel Werner ?
3. Considering your practice of meditation,
what are your thoughts on Jhanas/Nimittas with regard to the Neoplatonic tradition and western mysticism in general?
Many thanks, again!
Saeeduddin Ahmed
May 5, 2022
During the episode Dr. Shaw mentions Carlos Steel’s “The changing self : a study on the soul in later neoplatonism : Iamblichus, Damascius and Priscianus”. This book is hard to get (at least hard to buy). It is available in libraries per worldcat. However, I was intrigued and looked by Professor Steel online.
He appears to be an absolute superstar scholar in areas pertaining to this podcast, including Neoplatonism.
Two lectures are available online.
I have commented on one of them (on vimeo) in the Shwep subreddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/shwep/comments/u7q5bk/gregory_shaw_on_the_phenomenology_of_iamblichean/i73y5rw/?context=3
The other one can be found on youtube here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GFL7ATPtoE
(the handout mentioned is no longer available online, but I believe this one from 2014 has much of the same material)
https://iphras.ru/uplfile/histsc/events/Steel_2014.pdf
There is a lot going on in Steel’s lectures. I hope Earl may consider inviting him on to the podcast (Steel seems, just an impression of mine, to be fairly accessible). His work on Proclus seems amazing (reviewed by the Bryn Mawr Classical review – https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2003/2003.12.07/).
Earl Fontainelle
May 5, 2022
Good idea. He works on Renaissance Platonism as well. A good guy.
Daniel White
May 12, 2022
Dr. Shaw—-I have heard a rumor that you are working on a new book and I am hoping that it will be published soon. Please say it is true because I thoroughly enjoyed your seminal book on Theurgy as well as your other articles you have published over the years. You write very well and have a knack for explaining these matters quite well.
GREGORY SHAW
November 1, 2022
Hi Daniel,
Been away from the site for a long while. I am nearing completion of a book titled, Hellenic Tantra: The Theurgic Platonism of Iamblichus. I appreciate your interest. Hope that readers like you will be interested. gs
Kjetil Kringlebotten
April 29, 2023
I would update the recommended reading list to note that Shaw’s book has been republished:
G. Shaw. Theurgy and the Soul: The Neoplatonism of Iamblichus. 2nd ed. Foreword by John Milbank and Aaron Riches. Kettering: Angelico Press/Sophia Perennis, 2014.
Earl Fontainelle
April 29, 2023
Thanks. Readers interested in modern permutations of western esotericism will find it interesting and relevant that a perennialist press is republishing Prof Shaw’s book.
Kjetil Kringlebotten
April 29, 2023
It was republished nine years ago, actually