Coming Back for More, Part IX: Joel Kalvesmaki on Evagrios of Pontos and the Transfer of Bodies

[Special thanks to Joel’s dog Gamer for tasteful continuo accompaniment at one point in the interview]

This is a two-parter with Joel Kalvesmaki. In this instalment, Part I, we discuss a number of intriguing passages from Evagrios of Pontos’ celebrated work of vexing participatory metaphysics, the Kephalaia Gnōstika, discussing the state of the MSS (much survives only in Syriac, the Greek original being lost), the work’s intentional obscurity (or ‘esoteric writing methodology’, as I would tend to put it), the different types of bodies the angels, humans, and demons have, the multiple worlds they inhabit, the multiple judgements they undergo, and the ‘transfer of bodies’ which occurs in this metaphysical/physical landscape.

We then try to make sense of what Evagrius is saying.

The episode ends on a cliffhanger; in Part II we explore Joel’s groundbreaking recent research into what exactly was going on at the ‘anti-Origenist’ Second Council of Constantinople/Fifth Ecumenical Council of 553.

Interview Bio:

Editor in Byzantine Studies at Dumbarton Oaks for more than a decade, Joel is currently an independent scholar. He holds a research fellowship at Catholic University of America, where he was a graduate student (PhD, 2006), and he maintains several editorial and advisory positions, notably with the Journal of the Text Encoding Initiative and the monograph series Christianity in Late Antiquity (University of California Press in conjunction with the North American Patristics Society). A specialist in the works and thought of Evagrius Ponticus, Joel is editor of the authoritative reference work Guide to Evagrius Ponticus, and co-author/editor/translator with Robin Darling Young et al. of Evagrius of Pontus, The Gnostic Trilogy (Oxford University Press, 2024).

Works Cited in this Episode:

Primary:

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man: Luke 16:19-31. cf. John 11-12.

Justinian’s Letter to Menas: see Justinian. Epistula ad Menam. In E. Schwartz, editor, Acta Conciliorum Oecumenicorum, volume 3, pages 189–214. De Gruyter, Berlin, 1940.

Origen’s On First Principles: in English, see now John Behr. Origen: On First Principles. Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2019.

Secondary:

Robin Darling Young, Joel Kalvesmaki, Columba Stewart, Charles M. Stang, and Fr. Luke Dysinger, editors. Evagrius of Pontus: The Gnostic Trilogy. Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2024.

Sami Yli-Karjanmaa. Reincarnation in Clement of Alexandria: Salvific Cycles and Steps of Progress. Brill, Leiden, 2025.

Themes

Angelomorphic Transformation, Clement of Alexandria, Demonology, Evagrius, Henads, Interview, Metempsychosis, Origen, Origenism